Why Abu Ghraib and Gitmo matter

Killer statement on Andrew Sullivan's blog today from a now-radio host/back-then interrogator in Iraq.

Powerful stuff.

Comments

[Maydayog]

As a soldier who served in Guantanamo (JTF-160 as well as -GTMO), I thought I had seen it all. Not only has our service been unfairly maligned (to date, there has been no finding of systematic abuse in GTMO), but now we're being blamed for the deaths of our fellow soldiers in Iraq?

Let's put aside the fact that there has been no findings of systematic abuse and focus on the logical disconnect that arises out of believing that the motivations of these foreign fighters can be determined with such simplicity. You have two (soon to be three) books detailing the causes of and reasoning behind our current tension with the Gap and yet you think that such a bone-headed simplification is worthy of praise? C'mon. It would be extreme folly to believe that a Saudi extremist would refrain from supporting fighters in Mosul if only GTMO had never been opened. The fact of the matter is that the fighters in Iraq really aren't that much different than the fighters in GTMO-- and we certianly know that most of the fighters in GTMO were on the battlefield prior to January 2002.

It is absurd to believe that there is a direct correlation between what we have done in GTMO and the violence against our soldiers in Iraq. Do I believe that the insurgents told Alexander that the reason they were fighting is GTMO? Certainly. It would be folly, though, to believe that such a tale is the unvarnished truth.

Further, what do the insurgents actually know about GTMO? I'm certain they are familiar with the popular meme that GTMO is a torture center. What I doubt they are familiar with is the actual way we treat detainees in GTMO. The religious sensitivity, the cultural sensitivity, the medical care, the psychological support, etc. So if foreign fighters are in Iraq due to "GTMO", are they there because of what is actually going on or because they have been sold on a set of facts that simply doesn't hold up to reality? If it is the latter, the problem is not with Guantanamo but with those who paint it in such a bleak light.

[Tom Barnett]

You're arguing reality in a conflict of perceptions, trying to discredit the whole by defending the far better case, out of a sense of personal injustice and insider knowledge. Quite reasonable.

I would argue GITMO is a distant second to Abu Ghraib in impact, and that it's an easy sales job in the Middle East (and pretty much anywhere abroad) to declare them equivalent and be totally believed.

Your points are well taken about ultimate causality, but finding pertinent causality in a "Remember the X!" meme is not far-fetched either, especially when fellow fighters and a sense of personal honor are concerned.

As for the actual historical reality of the "Remember the X" event, it's largely irrelevant once the meme takes hold.

Football Team A faces Football Team B in the Super Bowl. Days beforehand, a star player on A makes some intemperate remarks about Team B. Team B gets fired up and crushes Team A in the game.

Was the comment the ultimate reason for Team A's loss? Of course not.

Did it matter?

Ask Team B.

[VoteWithTroops]

Point of clarification - I agree with most of your beliefs and strategies. I am a fan of yours on 98% of your battle lines. But some are over the top, occassionally.