Roy’s prediction on Islam in France going the route of unreformed Catholicism

INTERNATIONAL REPORT: “Spurning Secularism, Many French Muslims Find Haven in Catholic Schools,” by Katrin Bennhold, New York Times, 30 September 2008.

Olivier Roy is the best European scholar on Islam in its globalizing form. In his last book, which I use in Great Powers, he posits that Islam in the West has the option of remaining unreformed and spiritually isolated within a secular society in the manner of Catholicism: you accept that your private sphere/religious beliefs posit a tighter rule set than that allowed by the society within which you live.

Good example: I don’t believe in abortion (my private sphere Catholicism), but I don’t believe the government should ever tell me what to do with my body unless we’re talking a clear and imminent threat spreadable to others (contagion), and so I extend that political right to women on the question of reproductive rights. So I keep those two spheres separate. I admit to the Kingdom of God and the kingdom of man.

Roy always says, watch France because its firm laicite (secularism) means Islam there must adapt or fight back openly (like in the Parisian ghettos). One way, as Roy argues, is simply to avoid the fight, like most Evangelicals do here in the U.S., focusing on social issues but by and large avoiding the political sphere (despite the fabulous reputation, the religious Right in this country is more apolitical than ever—meaning they don’t view politics as the answer per se).

So this story speaks of how many Muslims, desiring a non-secular education, are going to Catholic schools in France.

Why so fascinating? Common schools, or what we today call public schools, were first created in the 18202-1830s in America in response to the perceived threat of the “Muslims” of that age—the arriving immigrant Roman Catholic Irish. Notice how those “parochial” schools still thrive, in part by providing refuge for all manner of religious types (many non-Catholic) who desire a spiritual separatism on the question of education.

And I say that after putting my first-born daughter through 8 years of Catholic grade school, with three more currently in attendance.

The piece says:

The quiet migration of Muslims to private Catholic schools highlights how hard it has become for state schools, long France’s tool for integration, to keep their promise of equal opportunity.

It’s promise of secularization, perhaps, but I don’t get the argument on losing the battle regarding equal opportunity. I mean, that’s hardly been the case here in the States.

According to a former grand mufti (French citizen):

Laicite has become the state’s religion and the republican school is its temple. It’s ironic, but today the Catholic Church is more tolerant of—and knowledgeable about—Islam than the French state.

Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth, I say.

Naturally, Muslim girls can wear their head scarves in Catholic schools. We have a lot history of females covering their heads too. But here’s the larger, downstream reality: without the scarves, half wouldn’t show up at first, but most stop wearing them by the end of the education.

Catholic schools are good for that, too.

Comments

[Tim Clark]

Tom,

This posting on religion, e.g., islam, catholicism, catholic schools, abortion, and previous postings on politics and analysis on management consulting led to a fairly long-winded (for me) posting.

The next Big Idea for me is application of an improved problem resolution/decision-making process that can result in resolving the abortion issue and help break the zero-sum game reinforced by the political parties. Key points in the process are that people can agree on facts, ideals, and can find common causes that they can choose to work together to resolve. They will likely always disagree on desired outcomes, e.g., the legality of abortion.

[farhad]

the religious has had a different historical path in U.S,than it had in Europe.in U.S, Government don't interfere in religious,thus religious has a big say in govenment.one of Bush's major base has been thereligious right; the Evanglist church,moral majority,like Apec,they have enormous influances on government matters,specially in elections.Whereas in Europe,the government protects the people from religious,hence it don't play a big roll in government affairs,or inelections per se.

[stuart abrams]

I always stress the distinction between (1) official secularism - the French way, and (2) the separation of church and state - the American way. The latter is essential if globalization is going to work; the former is just another form of fundamentalism. A lot of people on the left don't get this distinction, which is why they are attracted to the recent wave of what I call "atheist fundamentalism" (Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, now Bill Maher's movie), which I find just as offensive as religious fundamentalism.

[Matt Osborne]

Tom, I'd be interested to have your opinion on religious freedom in India. My mother keeps saying that the subcontinent is about to undergo a kind of Civil Rights Era over religious freedom rather than race.

[Sean Meade]

stuart: i always appreciate your sane take on religion

[Seth]

Wait until it becomes popular among young people to be Muslim in the US, like being a lesbian is now (college girls making out). Then they will bastardize the religion, this could either energize the radicals or destroy their cause.

[Tom Barnett]

Matt,

Feel India heads toward that tipping point.

[hof1991]

I'm working on God's Continent: Christianity, Islam and Europe's religious crisis by Philip Jenkins, the third in a series by him. The others dealt with religion in the US and religion in the third world. It also deals with how Europe and the US are on different paths, but it is more than just market vs state religion or the effects of WWII. He uses a lot of stats and is very clear headed - so he agrees with Tom a lot.